Archive for January, 2009

Kudos

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Hi, all-

This week I’ve been re-reading all the messages sent to/from the Mahan list
since it started in December 1996.

Yes, I saved them all, originally, but my reason for reviewing them was to
delete the chaff and keep the “wheat”, so as to free up some hard drive
space.

For the record, we passed our 1-year mark in late December, and we still
owe a debt of gratitude to Dave Riddle for establishing the ListServ, and
to his Dad Bill for suggesting the name.

I’m terribly worried, however, that we have not yet assigned a list
administrator nor established any rules of etiquette. How can we possibly
continue to function without same? ;>)

And, without a doubt, the best one-liner of the year goes to Brooks Rowlett
for this groaner:
===========
“> The experts from the U.S. military looked at the frozen greenish*
> debris….and explained that the townspeople had been storing the jetisoned
> debris from an airplane sewage holding tank.
>snip< *The green is more usually described as blue, and arises from the antiseptic fluid used in the toilet system. This has happened more than once, and as recently as within the last two years: I remember a news report. If the plane's tank leaks, an accumulation on the side of the aircraft occurs, and is liable to fall off as the aircraft drops to lower altitudes and the temperature increases. The moral of the story, of course, is that just because the Cold War is over, the danger isn't: There is still the possibility that you can be hit by an icey BM." ========= I must thank all of you who joined and participated in the Mahan list, for I have learned a great deal in the past year, and I hope for continued enlightenment. Thanks, and keep it up. Tom Tom Robison Ossian, Indiana **Please Note NEW E-mail Address* tcrobi@adamswells.com

“Titanic” REVIEW– DON’T wait for the video!

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

[Please forward to Sub-Arch-L]
Copyright 1997 Louis R. Coatney

Yesterday, my (19 yr old) son (Robert) and I took in the new
movie-spectacular “Titanic,” for the Saturday matinee, here
in land-locked Macomb, Illinois — not that the two of us
didn’t nearly die in 38-degree water after a sailboat overturn
on a nearby lake, about 6 years ago, … which made the movie
*uncomfortably* personal.

Overall, it is a stunning, beautiful, and educationally significant
film … despite some egregious errors of production/directiion
judgment.

The film proceeds from a modern deep-sea treasure hunter’s perspective
… to the “oral history” memories of an old woman survivor …
to the historical re-creation of the ship and society of that era
… and the sight of the woman in her young beauty … and the
filmgoer’s *feeling* of mortality and of the fleeting … *vital*
… opportunities … personal as well as material … of Life.

We are shown a computer animation of exactly how TITANIC is supposed
to have flooded, broken, and then taken her final plunge … with
2/3s of the 2,200 people aboard her … and then reminded that a
*human* remembrance is infinitely more and infinitely more
valuable.

Aesthetically, beauty is shown due reverence: A beautiful woman and
a beautiful ship … and the mystical relation of the two. TITANIC
herself is shown in proper, *dual* perspective: a huge, magnificent
creation of human engineering in port and a tiny, brightly lit jewel
on the bleak surface of the cold, dark, and (as we have already been
shown) DEEP ocean. The “photography” … on the wide screen … is
sometimes breath-taking.

The girl is portrayed by Kate Winslet, a young actress having red hair
and a full (and fully developed) figure — not necessarily pretty,
but certainly beautiful in the classical sense. And the importance of
RECORDING a(ny — nay, *every* –) woman’s natural/nude beauty is well-
“illustrated.”

(Winsley looks a *great* deal like a girl I met on Internet and once was
able to give a ride here to — to see a boyfriend 🙁 Last I heard,
she was expecting … the continuance of beauty being part of
“Titanic”‘s theme … but planning on marrying someone else she didn’t
love. Women can be as fascinating … and willful … as ships. 🙂 )

Some of the flaws include a clumsily overzealous demonization of Victorian
class society … which (especially in the context of the TITANIC
tragedy) is transparently damnable for us today enough in its own right.

After the “sitting,” the steamy “back-seat” scene … as artfully as the
beauty of a woman “afterwards” is portrayed … was superfluous, if
there wasn’t going to be any subsequent promise of biological
continuance/immortality, as there was so overtly in Michael Mann’s
“The Last of the Mohicans” masterpiece.

Besides the immediate characters … and the usual lively
anti-establishment portrayal of “The Unsinkable Molly Brown” … there
are not enough famous passengers represented. We see an ideal old
couple beatifically choosing to die together, embraced on their stateroom
bed, without learning anything about the self-sacrifice of Mr. and Mrs.
Isidor Strauss and their lifelong philanthropy. The scandal of Astor’s
very young and pregnant wife is mentioned, but not her survival … let
alone her subsequent rise to Parliament (to be the recipient of one of
Winston Churchill’s most immortal ripostes) … if that *was* the same
Lady Astor.

Also, I had thought CAPT. Smith survived the sinking, but he is shown
going down with his ship.

The silliest thing in the movie is the true-cad’s shoot-em-up
pursuit of the young-lovers-in-social-rebellion. It wasted time
and severely taxed film credibility for any sincere viewer of whatever
age. If the writer/director was responsible for this, he deserves
professional (and corporate) censure. If a producer insisted on it,
s/he should never be allowed *near* a film’s production again!

As long as the movie was, and as intent as the producers/director must
have been in making sure that their technical investment was on the
screen, too much content apparently died on the cutting room floor,
and I hope there is at least a director’s cut to recover some of
that even if only in video.

One other basic point any TITANIC movie should include … and which
this one missed … is that the tragedy epitomized the arrogance-
rooted “strategic” stupidity of Europe’s ruling classes at the
time … and how modern technology could magnify its cost … as
happened only a few years later in the First World War.

However, I believe the film is still a must-see … especially in its
wide-screen format … and will be of huge, positive benefit to
promoting interest in … and respect for … history, art, and
(marine) engineering and exploration … especially among the
young.

Considering its explicit “artistic content,” I’m not sure it is
something a teacher would want to risk recommending to under-18
students.

I might add that among other interesting TITANIC materials is the
Chatham River Press book MAKE A MODEL: TITANIC (ISBN 0-517-
68131-5) which actually contains *3 neat* models. The first is
a full-length half-model showing the ship’s exterior on
one side and a cross-section of the interior on the other.
The second model is of TITANIC stern-high, just before she took
her final plunge … and with a model of the suspect iceberg in
attendance. The final model is of the wreck on the sea floor,
with exploration vehicles about. This sequence of models in
their own way impart the historical process, of course.

Finally, I think we are at the point that computerized/composite footage
equal or even superior to archival documentary film footage may now
be possible. When I look at all the inaccuracies/absurdities in the
“Victory at Sea” series, for example, I yearn for something more balanced
and fully descriptive, graphically … although anything without
politically correct editorializing (like we see to some extent in
“Titanic”) may no longer be possible, I suppose.

Lou Coatney, mslrc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu, ElCoat@Hotmail.com
www.wiu.edu/users/mslrc/ (Free lunch-hour boardgame and
cardstock model ship plans to print off and assemble/play)

U-537

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Recently, I managed to purchase a copy of Edward Von der Porten’s
_The German Navy in World War II_. One of the pictures is of the Type
IX C submarine U-537. On the front of the conning tower is a symbol
which looks for all the world like the Olympic rings. Can anyone on the
list tell me what is the significance of this symbol? Was in unique to
this particular boat, or was it a standard feature of this class of U-
boat? Thanks in advance, Ed.

Edward Wittenberg
ewitten507@aol.com

USS MONITOR on the Web

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Hi everyone,

Our largest local newspaper, the DAILY PRESS, just began a
five-part series
on the MONITOR today, the 135th anniversary of the MONITOR’s sinking off Cape
Hatteras, NC.

The series will cover history, NOAA’s National Marine
Sanctuary Program, and
disucss NOAA’s efforts to preserve significant portions of the MONITOR before
its inevitable collapse.

Better yet, the whole series has been posted on the Internet at:

http://hamptonroads.digitalcity.com

NOAA’s draft preservation plan for the MONITOR is available
for comments and
can be found on the Web at:

www.nos.noaa.gov/nmsp/monitor/plan/

HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

John D. Broadwater, Manager
MONITOR National Marine Sanctuary
The Mariners’ Museum
100 Museum Drive
Newport News, VA 23606-3759
757-599-3122 (fax 591-7353)
jbroadwater@ocean.nos.noaa.gov
http://www.nos.noaa.gov/nmsp/monitor/

USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Wed Dec 31 18:03:04 1997
>X-Sender: john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified)
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>From: John Szalay
>Subject: RE: USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.
>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 00:34:33 +0000
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>At 03:47 PM 12/31/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >The bow broke off during a typhoon owing to poor plate welds at the
> >Bethlehem Shipbuilding Co. at the Fore River Shipyard, Quincy, Mass., in
> >April 1943. This was the third case for a U.S. Navy warship, the USS
> >Baltimore (CA-68) also suffered buckling of the bow plates but did not
> >lose the bow.
> >
>
>FWIW: recently a picture of the Pittsburgh minus her bow was posted to
>the REC.BINARIES.PICTURES.MILITARY usenet newsgroup, I captured it
>at that time for reference, since the current topic is the bow. I have
>posted again to the same group.
>
> rec.binaries.pictures.military
>
>.
>
>
>
>
>

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Wed Dec 31 08:59:55 1997
>From: “Francis.Timothy”
>To: Mahan Naval History Mailing List , MARHST
> , World War II Discussion List
> , “‘mahan@microworks.net‘”
>
>Subject: RE: USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.
>Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:47:33 -0500
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>The bow broke off during a typhoon owing to poor plate welds at the
>Bethlehem Shipbuilding Co. at the Fore River Shipyard, Quincy, Mass., in
>April 1943. This was the third case for a U.S. Navy warship, the USS
>Baltimore (CA-68) also suffered buckling of the bow plates but did not
>lose the bow.
>
>This is probably directly related to the extremely high turnover rates
>in labor, and the constant need for worker training, at the west coast
>shipyards during the war. This was partially caused by the “pirating”
>of skilled labor by the new aviation plants in California and
>Washington.
>
>Yet another “evil” influence of the Army Air Corps/Air Force (i.e., the
>superfluous service). [hey, just a joke…]
>
>Incidently, because of this weld failure, BuShips began X-raying
>critical welds on large surface ships (a practice previously limited to
>submarine construction).
>
>The bow was found by a tug (I can’t find the name) and towed to Guam.
>While in tow, it was termed a “suburb of Pittsburgh” and jokingly
>christened “McKeesport” by the crew. Supposedly, the cruiser’s crew
>started a rumor that the bow was filled with hundred’s of cases of beer
>and the bow was “anxiously awaited bu thousands of personnel stationed
>at the island.” While the documents are not clear, it seems the bow was
>”salvaged” at Guam, i.e. investigated and then cut up for scrap, with
>specimen pieces sent to BuShips for study.
>
>An entirely new bow, with about 5 tons of strengthening, was fabricated
>and attached at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.
>
>Timothy L. Francis
>Historian
>Naval Historical Center
>email address: Francis.Timothy@nhc.navy.mil
>voice: (202) 433-6802
>
> > ———-
> > From: Brooks A Rowlett[SMTP:brooksar@indy.net]
> > Subject: USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.
> >
> >As is fairly well known, BALTIMORE class heavy cruiser USS PITTSBURGH
> >lost her bow in a storm in 1945.
> >The bow was salved and brought into Guam. However, PITTSBURG sailed
> >to Puget Sound Navy yard with a false bow and was under repair there at
> >the end of the war, and was decommissioned upon completion of repairs.
> >So it appears that the original bow was not re-attached.
> >Is that correct? Was a new bow built? If not, what vessel towed the
> >original bow back to the United States; or if the original bow was not
> >used, what was its ultimate fate? Scrap? Sunk as target?
> > -Brooks

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Tue Dec 30 18:48:48 1997
>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:16:51 -0500
>From: Brooks A Rowlett
>Organization: None whatsoever
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>To: Mahan Naval History Mailing List ,
> MARHST ,
> World War II Discussion List
>CC: elmer@wpi.edu
>Subject: USS PITTSBURG (CA-72) & her lost bow.
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>As is fairly well known, BALTIMORE class heavy cruiser USS PITTSBURGH
>lost her bow in a storm in 1945. Larry Sowinski’s photo book ACTION IN
>THE PACIFIC has a photo of her, moored next to a light cruiser at Guam
>with the bow missing; Paul Silverstone’s US WARSHIPS OF WORLD WAR II has
>an aerial photo of PITTSBURGH steaming along without the bow.
>
>The bow was salved and brought into Guam. However, PITTSBURG sailed
>to Puget Sound Navy yard with a false bow and was under repair there at
>the end of the war, and was decommissioned upon completion of repairs.
>So it appears that the original bow was not re-attached.
>
>Is that correct? Was a new bow built? If not, what vessel towed the
>original bow back to the United States; or if the original bow was not
>used, what was its ultimate fate? Scrap? Sunk as target?
>
>Works already consulted: DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN NAVAL FIGHTING SHIPS
>N-P volume with entry on PITTSBURGH.
>
>Thanks,
> -Brooks

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Minisub to stay in Texas

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Mon Dec 29 22:44:30 1997
>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:41:15 -0500
>From: Brooks A Rowlett
>Organization: None whatsoever
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>To: MARHST
>CC: Mahan Naval History Mailing List ,
> SubWar list ,
> Steve Hendricks ,
> “C. Patrick Hreachmack” ,
> Andrew Toppan
>Subject: Minisub to stay in Texas
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>The following appeared on the WWII mailing list:
>
>Subject:
> Midget Submarine
> Date:
> Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:13:34 -0600
> From:
> Arnold L Gladson
>
>
>[ from the Austin-American Statesman]
>
> Midget sub a big
> coup for Nimitz museum
> Fredericksburg museum glories in its victory after 7-year battle
>for
>the Pearl Harbor artifact.
> Off the coast of Oahu, Japanese pilots rained bombs on the water
>below. Black smoke bellowed from battleships ripped in half. U.S.
>sailors ran for cover, shielding their ears from the thunderous sounds
>of
>war.
> The Japanese had surprised the U.S. Navy at Pearl Harbor.
> Beneath the surface of the ocean, a midget submarine silently
>sliced through the cold, dark water. Two men moved along the sub’s dim,
>narrow passageways shouting in Japanese, preparing torpedoes for launch.
> But the attack didn’t happen. The Haramaki lost its way and
>became beached off the coast of Oahu. One of its two operators, Ensign
>Kazuo Sakamaki, would live on in shame as the first Japanese prisoner of
>World War II.
> Fifty-six years later, the 80-foot long steel submarine, now
>undergoing restoration, sits in the dank belly of a defunct H-E-B
>grocery
>store off Main Street in Fredericksburg, Texas. And in Fredericksburg
>it
>will stay.
> A seven-year struggle over where the sub would be displayed
>ended
>Tuesday, when the U.S. Navy agreed to keep the historic vessel in
>Fredericksburg, at the Admiral Nimitz Museum of the Pacific War. Hawaii
>officials wanted it returned to the attack site at Pearl Harbor, home of
>the USS Arizona Memorial and a separate display of World War II-era
>ships
>and weapons.
> ”That decision may have averted another sneak attack on Pearl
>Harbor,” said retired U.S. Representative Jake Pickle of Austin. ”We
>would have moved heaven and earth before we’d moved that thing.”
> At the memorial, the midget sub would be just one more artifact.
>At the Nimitz, it will be the centerpiece—a tool for educating new
>generations about the attack. ”The Nimitz appreciates it more than any
>other museum,” said U.S. Rep. Lamar Smith of San Antonio.
> Smith sent a letter to President Clinton, signed by all Texas
>members of Congress, asking to keep the sub in Fredricksburg. ”It’s
>taken longer to get official permission to keep the sub here than the
>war
>lasted,” Smith said.
> This is more than just a dusty remembrance of a World War II
>battle. It breathes life into the ghosts of Pearl Harbor, reminding
>visitors that war is tragic, not romantic. ”Nothing tells the story of
>the war more powerfully,” said Bruce Smith, director of the Nimitz
>Museum.
> Fredericksburg is the birthplace of Admiral Chester W. Nimitz,
>who commanded the Pacific Fleet in World War II. The sub will rest in
>the museum’s new George Bush Gallery of the Pacific War, which will open
>in about a year
>
>Arnold Lloyd Gladson
>USMC-Class of 1942

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

The *ultimate* BENSON/GLEAVES class U.S. destroyer??

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Mon Dec 29 21:29:41 1997
>X-Errors-To:
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:26:21 -0500 (EST)
>X-Sender: rickt@pop3.cris.com
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>From: rickt@cris.com (Eric Bergerud)
>Subject: Re: The *ultimate* BENSON/GLEAVES class U.S. destroyer??
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>
> >The New Georgia had interesting support: SARATOGA and VICTORIOUS,
> > as well as MASSACHUSETTS, INDIANA, and NORTH CAROLINA. Japanese
> > airpower was pretty well exhausted, though, of course … and Adm.
> > Yamamoto had been gunned down in April, further paralyzing the IJN.
> >
> >Lou
> > Coatney, mslrc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu, ElCoat@Hotmail.com
>
>Interesting post….Roskill on Leander? Learn something every day . I do
>want to take exception with Lou on IJN’s air strength at the time of New
>Georgia. Halsey was rightly worried that Combined Fleet might engage with
>their carriers. What we did NOT know was the degree to which Japanese naval
>aviation had been hurt by the Guadalcanal / New Guinea campaign. The
>Japanese numbers certainly looked ugly from our point of view. Prior to New
>Georgia it dawned on Tokyo what the twin catastrophe at
>Guadalcanal/Buna-Gona meant to Rabaul and their entire position in the
>SOPAC. Consequently, the IJA sent substantial reinforcements to the area,
>(mostly NGuinea) and the IJAAF set up shop at Wewak. Rabaul and its
>surrounding complex was, on paper, greatly strengthened in every category,
>including air strength. Naturally our recon was picking this up. Now
>Combined Fleet had decided to avoid general engagement and ready for the
>”Decisive Battle” in the Central Pacific. (This became the “Turkey Shoot” in
>mid-44). Several new Japanese carriers were getting ready for fray along
>with new air groups. So the POSSIBILITY of a carrier battle was there as
>Halsey knew. As it was, several Japanese carrier fighter groups were
>dispatched to Rabaul to fight from land in the summer of 43. They were
>smashed – making our later job at the Mariannas much easier. As it was, the
>IJNAF contested New Georgia fiercely. It was air fighting in 1943, not 42,
>that cut the heart out of the Japanese air arm.
>
>Halsey’s staff, when they began planning for New Georgia shortly after
>Guadalcanal, were still understandably suffering from the stinging naval
>battles around Guadalcanal. (Even our victories were costly.) New Georgia
>was actually a very conservative move that made sense only if one assumed
>that the Japanese had a lot of fight left in them. What we did do was
>underestimate the ability of the Japanese Army to make life hell on earth
>for us. The resulting battle for Munda etc did serious damage to the 43d,
>37th and 25th Divisions. Disease was the big culprit – predictable after the
>Guadalcanal experience – but the Japanese did not cooperate by launching any
>idiot banzai charges. So close to Kolumbungara, the Japanese garrison was
>hard to starve out. So we ended up losing more men on New Georgia than
>Guadalcanal (and a FAR worse “kill ratio” despite all of our firepower). And
>the whole thing might have been unnecessary. The southeastern portion of New
>Georgia was controlled by friendly natives and that little corner connects
>to rest of the island via a narrow bridge of land. This corner, called Segi
>Point, proved a good place for a fighter strip and was ours for the taking –
>not a Japanese soldier within miles. With Segi in our pocket, Halsey could
>have jumped to Vella Lavella and forced the Japanese to evacuate the central
>Solomons – exactly what he decided to do in August. I am NOT being critical
>of Halsey. He responded reasonably given the knowledge he had. Unfortunately
>he did not properly understand the “sea change” that was taking place in the
>balance of forces between Japan and the US. Halsey was thinking of late 1942
>when, in retrospect, he should have been thinking of mid-44. Because of this
>thousands of GIs were treated to a violent campaign in some of the ugliest
>terrain on the planet.
>Eric Bergerud, 531 Kains Ave, Albany CA 94706, 510-525-0930

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

The *ultimate* BENSON/GLEAVES class U.S. destroyer??

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Mon Dec 29 17:10:58 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: ecom1.ecnet.net: mslrc owned process doing -bs
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:07:24 -0600 (CST)
>From: “Louis R. Coatney”
>X-Sender: mslrc@ecom1
>To: Consim-L@net.uni-c.dk, Mahan@microwrks.com, MarHst-L@qucdn.queensu.ca,
> MilHst-L@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu
>Subject: The *ultimate* BENSON/GLEAVES class U.S. destroyer??
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>One of the photos in John C. Reilly’s book about American destroyers
> shows Guadalcanal veteran GWIN sporting four 5″ guns, *ten* torpedo
> tubes, AND 40mm AA guns! However, No. 3 gun mount is entirely open,
> in apparent weight compensation.
>
>After Santa Cruz, the 40mm gun’s reputation was established, and I
> wonder if that led USN commanders to assume so-equipped ships could
> defend themselves self-sufficiently.
>
>GWIN was sunk by Long Lance torpedo in the Battle of Kolombangara
> (night of 12/13Jul43), wherein HMNZS LEANDER and both HONOLULU and
> ST. LOUIS were torpedoed as well … albeit without the fatal
> results suffered by HELENA at Kula Gulf exactly 1 week previously.
>
>Interestingly, LEANDER was captained by S.W. Roskill, a prominent
> name in naval history. Hmm … I also see a Lt. Cdr. Rayner listed
> as captain of the corvette PETUNIA in a big/disastrous N. Atlantic
> convoy battle. I wonder if this is the ENEMY BELOW Rayner. ??
>
>Anyway … back to GWIN … I *assume* the 40mms were added after Nov42,
> when GWIN was in the 2nd Battle of Guadalcanal with WASHINGTON and
> SOUTH DAKOTA. I’ll use the 4-gun/5-tube BENSON/GLEAVES variant model
> and stick the second quintuple tube mount abaft the second stack …
> but *where* did the searchlight go, then? ??
>
>The New Georgia had interesting support: SARATOGA and VICTORIOUS,
> as well as MASSACHUSETTS, INDIANA, and NORTH CAROLINA. Japanese
> airpower was pretty well exhausted, though, of course … and Adm.
> Yamamoto had been gunned down in April, further paralyzing the IJN.
>
>Lou
> Coatney, mslrc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu, ElCoat@Hotmail.com
> www.wiu.edu/users/mslrc/ (for your free 1ST ALAMEIN lunch-hour
> boardgame and USS MONITOR and U.S. destroyer escort cardstock
> model ship plans … to print off and assemble (and play))

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Purpose
The Mahan Naval Discussion List hosted here at NavalStrategy.org is to foster discussion and debate on the relevance of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's ideas on the importance of sea power influenced navies around the world.
Links