Archive for January, 2009

Who Evi Ben-Zedeff is. Addendum.

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Sep 18 15:23:24 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: ecom7.ecn.bgu.edu: mslrc owned process doing -bs
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:22:34 -0500 (CDT)
>From: “Louis R. Coatney”
>X-Sender: mslrc@ecom7.ecn.bgu.edu
>To: mahan@microwrks.com, marhst-l@qucdn.queensu.ca
>Subject: Who Evi Ben-Zedeff is. Addendum.
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>
>———- Forwarded message ———-
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:14:11 0200
>From: “Eviather H. Ben-Zedeff”
>To: “Louis R. Coatney”
>Subject: Re: Suppressed Israeli Navy officer’s book. Request for support
>
>ps,
>I’m teaching Journalism and Political Sciences in some Israeli
>universities. From 1992-1995 I edited the IDF’s professional magazine
>Ma’archoth.
>In April 1996, I delivered a paper on Israeli censorship of the
>press in the annual meeting of the US Society for Military History.
>
>EHBZ
>Eviathar H. Ben-Zedeff
>Department of Communication
>Haifa University
>Mt Carmel, Haifa, Israel
>

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Evi B-Z’s struggle for the truth.

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Sep 18 15:45:22 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: ecom7.ecn.bgu.edu: mslrc owned process doing -bs
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:44:08 -0500 (CDT)
>From: “Louis R. Coatney”
>X-Sender: mslrc@ecom7.ecn.bgu.edu
>To: mahan@microwrks.com, marhst-l@qucdn.queensu.ca,
> milhst-l@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu
>cc: evi@research.haifa.ac.il
>Subject: Evi B-Z’s struggle for the truth.
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
> > ———- Forwarded message ———-
> > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:09:22 0200
> > From: “Eviather H. Ben-Zedeff”
> > To: “Louis R. Coatney”
>
> > Telling truth is a vital military norm. Telling truth to your
> > people, and especially to your casualties’ next of kin is a force
> > multiplier. Sadly I’d say, personal and organizational considerations
> > seem to be more vital in these suppression cases.
>
>Evi,
>
>In July, I had a long article published in the Illinois Quad Cities’
> ARGUS/DISPACH newspapers debunking the … umm … *myth* … (being
> (further) spread by our local Congressman Lane Evans) … that …
> “Vietnam was a war between the classes in America fought mostly by poor
> blacks, Hispanics, and working class whites.” (Spr95 ARMED FORCES &
> SOCIETY research findings disagree.)
>
>Cngrsmn Evans has strongly supported pro-veteran appropriations
> (which I duly noted), but I said that truthful history and fair,
> faithful remembrance are no less important and that
>
> “Indeed, the Truth is the war memorial that counts most
> … for the future.”
>
>And it is ANY historian’s first duty to find the truth … to tell it …
> and to protect it.
>
>Of course, the book THE FIRST CASUALTY also addresses suppression
> issues.
>
>Good luck in your struggle for the Truth, Evi.
>
>Lou Coatney, mslrc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
> Macomb, Illinois.

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Clintie gets it right

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Sep 18 22:11:24 1997
>X-Errors-To:
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:10:52 -0400 (EDT)
>X-Sender: rickt@pop3.cris.com
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>From: rickt@cris.com (Eric Bergerud)
>Subject: Clintie gets it right
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>I know this is not specifically a naval issue, but regardless of personal
>opinions toward Mr. Bill, I think people should tip their hat because
>Clinton had the nerve to refuse to sign the anti-land mine bill. The
>countries that supported it, like Canada and most NATO countries, all have
>one thing in common: they know their armies have almost no chance of
>confronting combat in the forseeable future. The smaller nations, of course,
>would be protected by sugar daddy in any case. The countries that opposed
>it, (Russia, China, S Korea, Japan, Iraq, Iran and Isreal) all have one
>thing in common: they can imagine a real shooting war very close to their
>borders breaking out at any time. Whether it’s for good or ill, the US is in
>the second group and not the first. To dispense with a weapon as useful as
>anti-personnel mines would have been military folly and just the sort of
>thing that Clinton’s allies on the left eat with a spoon.
>Eric Bergerud, 531 Kains Ave, Albany CA 94706, 510-525-0930

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

“Coincidental” submarine losses: A “Sea Tale”?

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Sep 19 09:11:30 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: ecom5.ecn.bgu.edu: mslrc owned process doing -bs
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:10:24 -0500 (CDT)
>From: “Louis R. Coatney”
>X-Sender: mslrc@ecom5.ecn.bgu.edu
>To: Marine History Information Exchange Group ,
> mahan@microwrks.com, consim-l@listserv.uni-c.dk
>cc: “Louis R. Coatney” ,
> “William D. Anderson”
>Subject: “Coincidental” submarine losses: A “Sea Tale”?
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Tom Riley wrote:
> > I don’t know about this book, but I seem to remember a french submarine
> > lost the same year in the Med and one of our ships ( sub or surface I dont
> > remember) damaged or sunk at the same time. Did the Sovs ( now former
> > Sovs) lose a sub as well?
>
>Our boat was SCORPION, I believe, Tom. And someone … either on here or
> MAHAN … (Was it you, Andrew?) … has noted and pondered this
> questionable coincidence of lost boats, before.
>
>If there *was* an undeclared undersea skirmish, you would think enough
> time and governments have passed that we could learn the truth, now.
> Is *this* why the Israelis are so nervous?
>
>Hmmm … Would “Sea Tales” want to do some *investigative* reporting?
>
>Lou
> Coatney, mslrc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

River Kwai memorial for USS Houston survivors

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Sat Sep 20 06:21:02 1997
>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:21:22 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Timothy Riley
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: Re: River Kwai memorial for USS Houston survivors
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>As best as my somewhat sieve-like memory recalls, it was the “Colonel
>Bogie(sp?) March. VR Tim Riley
>
>On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Floyd B. Mack wrote:
>
> >
> > >So, did they finally sing the words to the music they only whistled-to
> > >in the movie?
> >
> > Here’s a simple question. What is the name of the tune they were
> > whistling?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Floyd B. Mack
> > Southern Yankee in Britain
> >
> >

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

River Kwai memorial for USS Houston survivors

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Sep 19 17:53:41 1997
>X-Mailer: SuperTCP Internet for Windows Version 5.1 (Mailer Version 1.02)
>From: Peter Sinfield
>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:56:52 cst
>Subject: Re: River Kwai memorial for USS Houston survivors
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Floyd Mack asked the name of the tune the POWs in the film were
>whistling.
>
>Colonel Bogey March – although Col. Bogey doesn’t rate a mention in the
>words I’ve heard to the tune!
>
>
>Peter
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Peter Sinfield
>Canberra ACT AUSTRALIA
>email: sinfip@anao.gov.au
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Another River Kwai kwiz

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Sep 19 18:06:01 1997
>X-Mailer: SuperTCP Internet for Windows Version 5.1 (Mailer Version 1.02)
>From: Peter Sinfield
>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:08:03 cst
>Subject: Re: Another River Kwai kwiz
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Mike Potter asks:
>
> >
> >How did the US Navy (and Jane’s) discover =Houston=’s fate while war
> >was still in progress against Japan?
> >
>
>HOUSTON was sunk in Sunda Strait in company with HMAS PERTH. The
>Japanese “hell ship” RAKAYO MARU (sp?- sorry, I’m at work) was sunk by
>US subs. in the South China Sea while transporting PWs (including some
>PERTH survivors) to Japan in 1944. The PAMPANITO (sp?) picked up (IIRC
>4) ex-PERTH men, which was the first time Australia learned of the
>light cruiser’s fate. Perhaps the details of HOUSTON’s gallant last
>fight came from the same source?
>
>Peter
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Peter Sinfield
>Canberra ACT AUSTRALIA
>email: sinfip@anao.gov.au
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

WWII USN Order of Battle (fwd)

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Sat Sep 20 09:48:15 1997
>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 97 18:46 MET DST
>To: marhst-l@post.queensu.ca, >mahan@microwrks.com, wwii-l@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu
>Subject: Re: WWII USN Order of Battle (fwd)
>X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.0
>X-Sender: 0611603955-0001@t-online.de (Silvia Lanzendoerfer)
>From: BWV_WIESBADEN@t-online.de (Tim Lanzendoerfer)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
> > Thanks for the prompt reply.
> > I am trying to do a complete order of Battle of all forces in the Pacific
> > Theater on 8/7 December 1941.
> > For the Pacific Area of the USN (Pacific Fleet, Asiatic Fleet, 11th, 12th,
> > 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th Naval Districts, as well as Shore Establishments
> > on West Coats, Hawaii, Philippines, and Canal Zone)on 7 December 1941 I
> > would like:
> >
> > 1. the administrative command structure
> > 2. the tactical order of battle on 7 December 1941 (TF’s, etc.)
> > best regards
> > Leo
>
>Here we go again. Anybody who has the info Leo needs?
>
>Tim
>
>Tim Lanzendörfer | “Lebt der Herr Reichskanzler noch?
>Amateur Naval Historian | Und wenn ja, was gedenkt er dagegen
>Email: BWV_Wiesbaden@t-online.de | zu tun?” – Private letter, 1905
>
> The United States Navy in the Pacific War 1941 – 1945
> http://www.microworks.net/pacific/index.htm
> The ships, the men, the battles

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

GREAT military/naval link webpage!

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Sat Sep 20 17:24:25 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: ecom6.ecn.bgu.edu: mslrc owned process doing -bs
>Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:23:56 -0500 (CDT)
>From: “Louis R. Coatney”
>X-Sender: mslrc@ecom6.ecn.bgu.edu
>To: World War II Discussion List ,
> milhst-l@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu, mahan@microwrks.com,
> marhst-l@qucdn.queensu.ca, consim-l@listserv.uni-c.dk
>cc: “Louis R. Coatney” ,
> “William D. Anderson” ,
> navarrov@LEAV-EMH.ARMY.MIL
>Subject: GREAT military/naval link webpage!
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>
>At … www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/gateway.htm
>
>This is the Combined Arms Research Library’s “gateway to the Web”
> page … and it has everything imaginable listed which would be
> of any interest to military/naval science/history researchers.
>
>(Tim, the Naval Historical Center is listed there.)
>
>The “Clip Art” link did 404 — dead-end — though.
>
>Lou Coatney, mslrc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
>www.wiu.edu/users/mslrc/ (free game and cardstock model warship)
>Macomb, IL

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Loss of S.S. Delhi, 13 December 1911, Pt 1

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Sun Sep 21 21:15:34 1997
>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:16:40 -0600
>From: Brooks A Rowlett
>Organization: None whatsoever
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>To: “C. Patrick Hreachmack” ,
> “Jim O’Neil” , Joe Cunningham ,
> Mahan Naval History Mailing List ,
> MARHST ,
> WWOne Mailing List
>Subject: Loss of S.S. Delhi, 13 December 1911, Pt 1
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Brooks here. This posting is going to 3 appropriate mailing lists
>and a few friends who may find it of interest.
>
>Background. I have a friend here, a military collector who particulary
>likes Medal (award) groupings – the person’s set of decorations – from
>British soldiers and sailors. He recently acquired a medal group of
>some interest as follows, in that the sailor, one George Henry Spencer,
>possessed service medals for both World Wars, as well as the “Board of
>Trade Bronze medal for Saving Life at Sea”.
>
>With the medal group, my friend acquired what I take to be the actual
>service record, a large parchment sheet, which the serviceman carried
>with him from depot to depot and ship to ship, and which was filled with
>notes, evaluation reports from his ship’s Captain, and the like. The
>bare outlines of his service record are as follows: Born 24 November
>1888 Notham Parish Southampton; 5 feet 4-1/2 inches tall; his service
>recordslists “numerous tattoos” as distinguishing marks. He joined
>”St Vincent” (shore station) at his enlistment on 6 September 1904. He
>served primarily in cruisers in the pre-War and WWI periods, serving on
>the elderly cruiser LEVIATHAN during WWI. Between the wars he served in
>several QUEEN ELIZABETH and ‘R’ class battleships, going back to
>cruisers in the 1930’s. On note of interest here is that he detached
>from HMS SUSSEX (County class heavy cruiser) on 3 March 1938 to serve in
>a vessel noted as “St. Angelo II” (Hostile)” untill detaching from her
>on23 May 1938 at Pembroke Dockyard. He spent the last two years of WWII
>at HMS VICTORY presumably doing shore work, and was discharged finally
>as a Chief Petty Officer, 14 August 1945.
>
>Obviously, my first question, can anyone provide further information on
>the “ST. ANGELO II (hostile)”. Was this some blockade-running vessel
>intercepted and taken into custody during the Spanish Civil War?
>
>To continue: the package my friend bought also contained a passcard,
>and Mr. Spencer’s handwritten account of the event which resulted in
>his receipt of the Lifesaving Medal. The passcard says:
>
> “INVESTITURE BY THE KING”
>
> in larger type:
> “Board of Trade Bronze Medal
> for Saving Life at Sea.”
>
> smaller type again:
> ” TO BE DECORATED.”
>
>(signature line, with “George Spencer”)
>
>down the left side, in smaller type than elsewhere used:
>”This card to be given to the Lord Chamberlain
> on entering the presence of The King”
>
>My friend passed me a typewritten transcription of the the handwritten
>account. This presented an opportunity for me to test the optical
>character recognition (OCR) software with my scanner. In this and
>the next two posts, I am presenting the result. All scanner-induced
>errors are cleaned up; the remaining text is reproduced with the
>original spelling and grammer and punctuation or lack thereof in the
>account. It makes fascinating reading.
>
>
>” The Wreck of S.S. “Delhi” off Cape Spartel
> N.W. Coast of Africa 13th December 1911
>
>Before I start to relate what happened I must state that I was serving
>onboard H.M.S. “Duke of Edinburgh” as an able seaman. Now on the night
>of the 12th December 1911. We gave a farewell concert on the Quarter
>Deck before leaving for Portsmouth to give Xmas leave which we were all
>anxiously looking forward to it was quite late when the concert finished
>and in the service it is the custom to unrig the stage and decorations
>right away and it was near Midnight when we finished. We had not been
>turned in very long when we received an S.O.S. and the “Duke of
>Edinburgh being emergency ship it was our job to answer the call. So we
>slipped our wires and proceeded to the assistance of S.S. “Delhi” which
>had stranded off Cape Spartel.”
>
>TO BE CONTINUED……

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Purpose
The Mahan Naval Discussion List hosted here at NavalStrategy.org is to foster discussion and debate on the relevance of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's ideas on the importance of sea power influenced navies around the world.
Links